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Old 20th August 2018, 04:13 PM   #2371
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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system54, Thanks for the picture, that makes it a lot easier to imagine what is going on. Since you are talking about a possible case for the clock, I assume you mean you found 100MHz (or whatever the clock frequency is, 80MHz?) noise that maybe gets smaller when you put your finger on the clock? Or maybe the big red film cap has got some clock noise radiating out of it (I hope not, but it's down in that area)?
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:37 PM   #2372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
To make sure we all are seeing things the same way, the third picture above is Victor's output stage, not an AVCC circuit. For comparison, I will post the output stage I used, which is similar, but not exactly the same as the ESS circuit.

Also, to further try for more clarity, I will post a picture below showing my AVCC supply and the 'downside' part of my output stage. The AVCC components are outlined in RED color, and 'downside' output stage section is in BLUE.
Thanks for the pics Mark

At this stage of modifications a small PCB gathering AVCC and the output stages would not it be a good idea for those who want to try this project

Serge
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:46 PM   #2373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
system54, Thanks for the picture, that makes it a lot easier to imagine what is going on. Since you are talking about a possible case for the clock, I assume you mean you found 100MHz (or whatever the clock frequency is, 80MHz?) noise that maybe gets smaller when you put your finger on the clock? Or maybe the big red film cap has got some clock noise radiating out of it (I hope not, but it's down in that area)?
i can already say that the nz2520sd (49.152mhz) sounds better than the external Clock implementation.
the case is only for fine tuning, i thing the Radiation is gone now, i will measure tomorrow.


next Project is your (ess) current stage with some z-foil
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:22 PM   #2374
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergelisses View Post
Thanks for the pics Mark

At this stage of modifications a small PCB gathering AVCC and the output stages would not it be a good idea for those who want to try this project

Serge
I would not expect an inexperienced person to build small circuits, but in my case I was inexperienced when I did it. After all, experience has to start somewhere. Prior to that I had only practiced a little with SMD soldering. Then I just decided I would try it and it turned out I was able to figure it out. Of course, I had been soldering bigger stuff for decades before trying it with SMD.

That being said, others are not me and I wouldn't expect other people to do it just because I did. However, one could still take a piece of PCB perfboard and make sure one end of it can attach to the dac board, and that end can abut up against where the bottom pins of the AVCC filter caps stick out. The perboard ground can be soldered to the dac ground plane there, and the output of the AVCC supplies can exit at that end of the perfboard and connect directly to the AVCC filter cap pins on the bottom of the dac board.

I would just suggest trying to visualize something like that one could do to try to meet the requirements for AVCC. It wouldn't have to be tiny, but it could still be a good layout and make for a good AVCC supply. In other words, a bigger AVCC supply doesn't have to be entirely on another board that sits far away from the dac board. Get them nice and snug together where it matters, where AVCC is, ground is, and power is nearby and accessible with very low resistance wiring. You get the idea, I hope. It doesn't have to look pretty, that is secondary. The main thing is that it works well.

Last edited by Markw4; 20th August 2018 at 05:27 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:12 AM   #2375
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Since we have recently been talking about things like possibly making a dac PCB, and like making AVCC power supplies, thought it might be of interest to see what publicly released information exists for the ES9311 AVCC power supply chip. Turns out there are at least a couple of basic information sheets for it that are not marked confidential. I will attach the two I have below in case anyone is curious about the prospect of possibly ever using one. (I also have a data sheet for it, but unfortunately it is NDA only. However, ESS is usually pretty good about providing such things through their distributors for folks willing to sign an NDA.)
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Old Today, 12:58 AM   #2376
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Thought I might pass along an interesting lesson I learned the hard way. I use a crimper tool and some ribbon cable to make interconnection cables as shown running between the two boards in the picture below. When the wires are small diameter as they are with the ribbon cables, I also put a dab of solder on each crimp before assembling the pins into the shells. So far, so good.

I had a wire break off right where it goes into the shell caused by repeated installation and removal of the cable. Maybe I didn't separate the ribbon wires from each other enough for best strain relief either.

Anyway, I used a little jewelers screwdriver to lift the retainer on the shell where the broken wire was, and used a little round poke tool to push it back out of the shell so I could fix it. Once out, I soldered the wire back on where it had broken and reassembled the connector.

Checked it out with a ohmmeter and it looked good. Not long after I started having trouble with DPLL bandwidth for DSD. I couldn't get the DPLL bandwidth down as low as I could before. I checked out various things including ringing out the ribbon cable again, but didn't find any problem. Among other things, I then verified with a scope that all the signals were coming across through the ribbon cable including probing at the connector or away from it on the circuit board traces. Signals looked good. No problem found.

But there was one funny thing, if put my finger on the cable, or near it on the circuit boards I could change the DPLL lock-in-ability.

To make an even longer story short, I took apart the connector and looked at it carefully with a microscope. For the pin insert I removed to re-solder (female), the springy contact points were not as tight as they used to be. Very careful examination showed there was contact, but the contact force was very small, more of a sliding fit than an interference fit.

As it happens pin header pins are .025" square. The poke tool I used to push out the pin was found to measure at .032" which evidently was enough to permanently deform the contact point's springiness on the female pin insert, but only slightly. The result was that there was a connection that measured fine every way I had to measure it, but was now apparently somewhat noisy.

Made up a new cable and connector assembly, problem fixed. Also made a poke tool that measures .023" round. It works fine, verified it causes no permanent contact deformation with microscope.
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Last edited by Markw4; Today at 01:00 AM.
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